"dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
- Panzerwolf
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
Wow, that Flakpanther! I was looking for one already. Love Paper Panzers 
WIP
Tristar PzKpfw 38 (t) Ausf. G
Hobby Boss T-40 Soviet Light Tank
Tristar PzKpfw 38 (t) Ausf. G
Hobby Boss T-40 Soviet Light Tank
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Schoof
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
Then go for it !!Panzerwolf wrote:Wow, that Flakpanther! I was looking for one already. Love Paper Panzers
On the Bench:
Uhm. .... That. ..... And. .. uhm. ... That. ..... And. ..... uhm. ..... That. .... And. ... uhm. ..
waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much
Uhm. .... That. ..... And. .. uhm. ... That. ..... And. ..... uhm. ..... That. .... And. ... uhm. ..
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timmyw
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
Thanks Mark!
Got up this morning have a cup of tea and some breakfast and was ready to do some reading.
I did see another version of this somewhere, it was the one with the smaller guns which is the one I really wanted to do. I couldn't find it though and I think it was a limited edition run and went out of production a few years ago.
I am looking forward to building this. I am thinking I might try and get some things for a diorama for this one too. We'll see.
Also really looking forward to seeing what everyone else does
Got up this morning have a cup of tea and some breakfast and was ready to do some reading.
I did see another version of this somewhere, it was the one with the smaller guns which is the one I really wanted to do. I couldn't find it though and I think it was a limited edition run and went out of production a few years ago.
I am looking forward to building this. I am thinking I might try and get some things for a diorama for this one too. We'll see.
Also really looking forward to seeing what everyone else does
- MarkVerploeg
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
the one with the smaller guns is the one you havetimmyw wrote:Thanks Mark!
Got up this morning have a cup of tea and some breakfast and was ready to do some reading.
I did see another version of this somewhere, it was the one with the smaller guns which is the one I really wanted to do. I couldn't find it though and I think it was a limited edition run and went out of production a few years ago.
I am looking forward to building this. I am thinking I might try and get some things for a diorama for this one too. We'll see.
Also really looking forward to seeing what everyone else does
the other versions look pretty similar but they have what looks like anti tank guns aimed to the sky
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1/35 Trumpeter M1132 ESV
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Personal builds
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timmyw
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
Ah I was talking about this one.
http://web.ipmsusa3.org/content/flak-pa ... jg-abt-653
That would look super cool with a crew around it I thought.
http://web.ipmsusa3.org/content/flak-pa ... jg-abt-653
That would look super cool with a crew around it I thought.
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Schoof
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
You thought correct
nice looking kit
On the Bench:
Uhm. .... That. ..... And. .. uhm. ... That. ..... And. ..... uhm. ..... That. .... And. ... uhm. ..
waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much
Uhm. .... That. ..... And. .. uhm. ... That. ..... And. ..... uhm. ..... That. .... And. ... uhm. ..
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timmyw
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
I couldn't resist,
I found a 1/72 kit in my stash of a panther and threw it together. It's not finished yet, need to do the numbering properly and give it a wash.
I think this one can sit next to my PC for inspiration when this GB gets underway hehe.
I found a 1/72 kit in my stash of a panther and threw it together. It's not finished yet, need to do the numbering properly and give it a wash.
I think this one can sit next to my PC for inspiration when this GB gets underway hehe.
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Schoof
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
You know that doesnt count for the SiG.......
On the Bench:
Uhm. .... That. ..... And. .. uhm. ... That. ..... And. ..... uhm. ..... That. .... And. ... uhm. ..
waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much
Uhm. .... That. ..... And. .. uhm. ... That. ..... And. ..... uhm. ..... That. .... And. ... uhm. ..
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Schoof
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
Just making sure.......
On the Bench:
Uhm. .... That. ..... And. .. uhm. ... That. ..... And. ..... uhm. ..... That. .... And. ... uhm. ..
waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much
Uhm. .... That. ..... And. .. uhm. ... That. ..... And. ..... uhm. ..... That. .... And. ... uhm. ..
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Schoof
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
Whahahahaha. ...... I know I know I just had my then teeth bleached for my Photoshoot. ...
On the Bench:
Uhm. .... That. ..... And. .. uhm. ... That. ..... And. ..... uhm. ..... That. .... And. ... uhm. ..
waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much
Uhm. .... That. ..... And. .. uhm. ... That. ..... And. ..... uhm. ..... That. .... And. ... uhm. ..
- T3hGuppy
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
This is what I will be entering.
Not the best kit out their but the AM photo etch Barrel and tracks should help it along.

Not the best kit out their but the AM photo etch Barrel and tracks should help it along.

- Nige201980
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
Well i will be joining in as Alextheblue kindly set this so now i cant wait it will be OOB so dont expect to much lol

(photo from the Internet)

(photo from the Internet)
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCy-TGcs5u_ZXSZ9kObNfsPg
On the go at the Mo
Quite a few
On the go at the Mo
Quite a few
- Nige201980
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
I'll not be add zimmerit thats for sure lol only second ever tank build so im glad its going yo be easy lol
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCy-TGcs5u_ZXSZ9kObNfsPg
On the go at the Mo
Quite a few
On the go at the Mo
Quite a few
Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
Got this today, I will be building this OOB as I have never built a kit from this company before. But have read a review about it and it seems to be ok.
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
Thanks, looking forward to it.HollywoodModelling wrote:Icm has some good and some bad things... I build the icm luchs and it was ok. Hope you enjoy this and thanks for joining in!
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- HotziSlayer
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
this SIG is awesome! cant wait to build my panther. when does april start? tomorrow isnt it ? 

- Panzermeister36
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
I thought it started the 1st of June...I may be wrong though...HotziSlayer wrote:this SIG is awesome! cant wait to build my panther. when does april start? tomorrow isnt it ?
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- HamilkarBarkas
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
Meanwhile, Panther tank porn


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Schoof
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
Damm that's tight
On the Bench:
Uhm. .... That. ..... And. .. uhm. ... That. ..... And. ..... uhm. ..... That. .... And. ... uhm. ..
waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much
Uhm. .... That. ..... And. .. uhm. ... That. ..... And. ..... uhm. ..... That. .... And. ... uhm. ..
- Panzerwolf
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
Wow, that camo! Never seen one like that before.
The background with the Panzersperren is also awesome, great photo!
The background with the Panzersperren is also awesome, great photo!
WIP
Tristar PzKpfw 38 (t) Ausf. G
Hobby Boss T-40 Soviet Light Tank
Tristar PzKpfw 38 (t) Ausf. G
Hobby Boss T-40 Soviet Light Tank
- MarkVerploeg
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
i think this tank is featured in the 1945 colors guide by ak
not sure but is shows tanks with those jaged lines on the sides
look mean cool pic
not sure but is shows tanks with those jaged lines on the sides
look mean cool pic
On the bench
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1/35 Hobby Boss M1070 tractor with M1000 semi trailer and Meng M1A2 TUSK II Abrams
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Personal builds
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- Panzerwolf
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
It's quite an interesting camo.
Must be very late war, it was applied in a hurry and doesn't look perfect.
Must be very late war, it was applied in a hurry and doesn't look perfect.
WIP
Tristar PzKpfw 38 (t) Ausf. G
Hobby Boss T-40 Soviet Light Tank
Tristar PzKpfw 38 (t) Ausf. G
Hobby Boss T-40 Soviet Light Tank
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Schoof
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
I'm guessing around the time of the bulge. ....... seeing there is snow in the pic as well
On the Bench:
Uhm. .... That. ..... And. .. uhm. ... That. ..... And. ..... uhm. ..... That. .... And. ... uhm. ..
waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much
Uhm. .... That. ..... And. .. uhm. ... That. ..... And. ..... uhm. ..... That. .... And. ... uhm. ..
- Panzermeister36
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
Same camo pattern:
"Ausf. G, unknown unit, Weissenburg, January 1945."
Similar camo on a Marder III Ausf. M somewhere in the Baltics:
"Ausf. G, unknown unit, Weissenburg, January 1945."
Similar camo on a Marder III Ausf. M somewhere in the Baltics:
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Cyberhobby Geschützwagen 38M FlaK 103/38 - "M" GB
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Dragon Sd.Kfz.7/2 FlaK 37 - Adam Mann's Halbkettenfahrzeug Gruppenbau
Dragon StuG IV Early - Unarmed Snowplow Modification
Trumpeter BMP-1 w/ BTR-70 Turret
Cyberhobby Geschützwagen 38M FlaK 103/38 - "M" GB
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- Panzerwolf
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
WIP
Tristar PzKpfw 38 (t) Ausf. G
Hobby Boss T-40 Soviet Light Tank
Tristar PzKpfw 38 (t) Ausf. G
Hobby Boss T-40 Soviet Light Tank
Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
I wonder if there was ever a Jagdpanther in that scheme? Hmm 
My entry btw......

My entry btw......

Where does all the bloody time go.....?
- Panzermeister36
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
Screw the rules; do itLee wrote:I wonder if there was ever a Jagdpanther in that scheme? Hmm![]()
...do it...
...do it...
...do it...
...do it...
Unleash the DShK!
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WIPs
Dragon Sd.Kfz.7/2 FlaK 37 - Adam Mann's Halbkettenfahrzeug Gruppenbau
Dragon StuG IV Early - Unarmed Snowplow Modification
Trumpeter BMP-1 w/ BTR-70 Turret
Cyberhobby Geschützwagen 38M FlaK 103/38 - "M" GB
HobbyBoss T-40
Meng T-90
Orochi M3A3 Bradley
http://www.youtube.com/user/Panzermeister36
WIPs
Dragon Sd.Kfz.7/2 FlaK 37 - Adam Mann's Halbkettenfahrzeug Gruppenbau
Dragon StuG IV Early - Unarmed Snowplow Modification
Trumpeter BMP-1 w/ BTR-70 Turret
Cyberhobby Geschützwagen 38M FlaK 103/38 - "M" GB
HobbyBoss T-40
Meng T-90
Orochi M3A3 Bradley
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Schoof
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
if you like it do it !
we aren`t going to judge with the history books on our lap
we aren`t going to judge with the history books on our lap
On the Bench:
Uhm. .... That. ..... And. .. uhm. ... That. ..... And. ..... uhm. ..... That. .... And. ... uhm. ..
waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much
Uhm. .... That. ..... And. .. uhm. ... That. ..... And. ..... uhm. ..... That. .... And. ... uhm. ..
- Panzerwolf
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
That Panther magazine looks nice, I've got the Kit Modellbauschule 2&4, armor modelling and dioramas.
I like the second one the most. Too bad the first one is gone...
I like the second one the most. Too bad the first one is gone...
WIP
Tristar PzKpfw 38 (t) Ausf. G
Hobby Boss T-40 Soviet Light Tank
Tristar PzKpfw 38 (t) Ausf. G
Hobby Boss T-40 Soviet Light Tank
- Panzerwolf
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
But I got Mig Jimenezes FAQ 2, that'll do for a while...
WIP
Tristar PzKpfw 38 (t) Ausf. G
Hobby Boss T-40 Soviet Light Tank
Tristar PzKpfw 38 (t) Ausf. G
Hobby Boss T-40 Soviet Light Tank
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Schoof
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
HM.....i really envy your free time 
On the Bench:
Uhm. .... That. ..... And. .. uhm. ... That. ..... And. ..... uhm. ..... That. .... And. ... uhm. ..
waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much
Uhm. .... That. ..... And. .. uhm. ... That. ..... And. ..... uhm. ..... That. .... And. ... uhm. ..
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timmyw
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
I have been looking for this book for quite a while. Trying to get it in Australia is a pain in the unmentionables!Panzerwolf wrote:Oh I really, really want that!
But I got Mig Jimenezes FAQ 2, that'll do for a while...
Getting anything in Australia is a pain in the Unmentionables
I am a bit scared of Amazon, can anyone point me to a bricks and mortar store I can get it in the U.K.?
-
timmyw
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
Probably a personal flaw of mine.
I always look at the feedback for each store selling stuff on there and my brain goes haywire.
Maybe I'll just throw caution to the wind and give it a red hot try.
I always look at the feedback for each store selling stuff on there and my brain goes haywire.
Maybe I'll just throw caution to the wind and give it a red hot try.
-
Schoof
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
HM ... you said the magazine sells in Holland ???
On the Bench:
Uhm. .... That. ..... And. .. uhm. ... That. ..... And. ..... uhm. ..... That. .... And. ... uhm. ..
waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much
Uhm. .... That. ..... And. .. uhm. ... That. ..... And. ..... uhm. ..... That. .... And. ... uhm. ..
Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
Went to my local book and magazine store today and look what I found 
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Last edited by Jan01 on Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
Do they print that the 'right' way up too?
Where does all the bloody time go.....?
Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
You was sayingLee wrote:Do they print that the 'right' way up too?
On the worktop
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
Hello everyone,
Is it still possible to join?
If yes then I would like to enter with 1/35 panther ausf a from tamiya.
Is it still possible to join?
If yes then I would like to enter with 1/35 panther ausf a from tamiya.
-
Schoof
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
Chmura wrote:Hello everyone,
Is it still possible to join?
If yes then I would like to enter with 1/35 panther ausf a from tamiya.
You are more then Welcome to join !
The SiG hasn`t started yet so still time
On the Bench:
Uhm. .... That. ..... And. .. uhm. ... That. ..... And. ..... uhm. ..... That. .... And. ... uhm. ..
waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much
Uhm. .... That. ..... And. .. uhm. ... That. ..... And. ..... uhm. ..... That. .... And. ... uhm. ..
- Panzermeister36
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
I`ll see if I can get Dragon`s new Jagdpanther G2 for my Birthday in April
Love the look of those beasts (and all German TDs, actually). 
You`re working on that one right now Hendrik, right? From what I saw in your vids, just the usual Dragon problems (i.e. bad instructions and awful sprue attachment points). I`m game for that, unless there`s any bigger problems.
You`re working on that one right now Hendrik, right? From what I saw in your vids, just the usual Dragon problems (i.e. bad instructions and awful sprue attachment points). I`m game for that, unless there`s any bigger problems.
Unleash the DShK!
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WIPs
Dragon Sd.Kfz.7/2 FlaK 37 - Adam Mann's Halbkettenfahrzeug Gruppenbau
Dragon StuG IV Early - Unarmed Snowplow Modification
Trumpeter BMP-1 w/ BTR-70 Turret
Cyberhobby Geschützwagen 38M FlaK 103/38 - "M" GB
HobbyBoss T-40
Meng T-90
Orochi M3A3 Bradley
http://www.youtube.com/user/Panzermeister36
WIPs
Dragon Sd.Kfz.7/2 FlaK 37 - Adam Mann's Halbkettenfahrzeug Gruppenbau
Dragon StuG IV Early - Unarmed Snowplow Modification
Trumpeter BMP-1 w/ BTR-70 Turret
Cyberhobby Geschützwagen 38M FlaK 103/38 - "M" GB
HobbyBoss T-40
Meng T-90
Orochi M3A3 Bradley
- MikeyKb
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
I just put the dates into my calendar. If everything works out, and the D-Day build doesn't have be bogged down - I'm in! ROOOARRR!!! ... sorry, had to 

Mikey
- ForbesHutton
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
Based on the name of the thread and the GB, I decided to put this here:
16th-century artillery manual shows illustration of 'rocket cat' weaponry

PHILADELPHIA - You're a 16th century German prince plotting to crush a peasant rebellion, or perhaps you're leading an army against the Ottoman Empire or looking to settle the score with a rival nobleman. What's a guy looking for a tactical edge to do?
Bring on the rocket cats!
Fanciful illustrations from a circa-1530 manual on artillery and siege warfare seem to show jet packs strapped to the backs of cats and doves, with the German-language text helpfully advising military commanders to use them to "set fire to a castle or city which you can't get at otherwise."
Digitized by the University of Pennsylvania, the unusual, full-colour illustrations recently caught the attention of an Australian book blog and then found their way to Penn researcher Mitch Fraas, who set out to unravel the mystery.
"I really didn't know what to make of it," said Fraas, a historian and digital humanities expert at the Penn library. "It clearly looks like there's some sort of jet of fire coming out of a device strapped to these animals."
So were these unfortunate animals from the 1500s really wearing 20th-century technology?
Fraas' conclusion: No. Obviously.
The treatise in question was written by artillery master Franz Helm of Cologne, who was believed to have fought in several skirmishes against the Turks in south-central Europe at a time when gunpowder was changing warfare.
Circulated widely and illustrated by multiple artists, Helm's manual is filled with all sorts of strange and terrible imagery, from bombs packed with shrapnel to missile-like explosive devices studded with spikes — and those weaponized cats and birds.
According to Fraas' translation, Helm explained how animals could be used to deliver incendiary devices: "Create a small sack like a fire-arrow . if you would like to get at a town or castle, seek to obtain a cat from that place. And bind the sack to the back of the cat, ignite it, let it glow well and thereafter let the cat go, so it runs to the nearest castle or town, and out of fear it thinks to hide itself where it ends up in barn hay or straw it will be ignited."
In other words, capture a cat from enemy territory, attach a bomb to its back, light the fuse and then hope it runs back home and starts a raging fire.
Fraas said he could find no evidence that cats and birds were used in early modern warfare in the way prescribed by Helm.
A good thing, too.
"Sort of a harebrained scheme," Fraas said. "It seems like a really terrible idea, and very unlikely the animals would run back to where they came from. More likely they'd set your own camp on fire."
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/16th-century-a ... 16516.html
16th-century artillery manual shows illustration of 'rocket cat' weaponry

PHILADELPHIA - You're a 16th century German prince plotting to crush a peasant rebellion, or perhaps you're leading an army against the Ottoman Empire or looking to settle the score with a rival nobleman. What's a guy looking for a tactical edge to do?
Bring on the rocket cats!
Fanciful illustrations from a circa-1530 manual on artillery and siege warfare seem to show jet packs strapped to the backs of cats and doves, with the German-language text helpfully advising military commanders to use them to "set fire to a castle or city which you can't get at otherwise."
Digitized by the University of Pennsylvania, the unusual, full-colour illustrations recently caught the attention of an Australian book blog and then found their way to Penn researcher Mitch Fraas, who set out to unravel the mystery.
"I really didn't know what to make of it," said Fraas, a historian and digital humanities expert at the Penn library. "It clearly looks like there's some sort of jet of fire coming out of a device strapped to these animals."
So were these unfortunate animals from the 1500s really wearing 20th-century technology?
Fraas' conclusion: No. Obviously.
The treatise in question was written by artillery master Franz Helm of Cologne, who was believed to have fought in several skirmishes against the Turks in south-central Europe at a time when gunpowder was changing warfare.
Circulated widely and illustrated by multiple artists, Helm's manual is filled with all sorts of strange and terrible imagery, from bombs packed with shrapnel to missile-like explosive devices studded with spikes — and those weaponized cats and birds.
According to Fraas' translation, Helm explained how animals could be used to deliver incendiary devices: "Create a small sack like a fire-arrow . if you would like to get at a town or castle, seek to obtain a cat from that place. And bind the sack to the back of the cat, ignite it, let it glow well and thereafter let the cat go, so it runs to the nearest castle or town, and out of fear it thinks to hide itself where it ends up in barn hay or straw it will be ignited."
In other words, capture a cat from enemy territory, attach a bomb to its back, light the fuse and then hope it runs back home and starts a raging fire.
Fraas said he could find no evidence that cats and birds were used in early modern warfare in the way prescribed by Helm.
A good thing, too.
"Sort of a harebrained scheme," Fraas said. "It seems like a really terrible idea, and very unlikely the animals would run back to where they came from. More likely they'd set your own camp on fire."
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/16th-century-a ... 16516.html
- Switcher
- Master Sergeant

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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
Wow! Late to the party for me. I am glad someone revived this thread. I heard about the SIG on several videos and couldn't locate it.
Count me in
This is my entry.
[youtube]fHXr0jxwh8o[/youtube]
Count me in
[youtube]fHXr0jxwh8o[/youtube]
On my desk:
1/350 Alpha Class Sub (Russian)
1/350 Akula Class sub (Russian)
1/350 USS Missouri USN Battleship BB-63
1/350 Alpha Class Sub (Russian)
1/350 Akula Class sub (Russian)
1/350 USS Missouri USN Battleship BB-63
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Schoof
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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
Welcome om board Switcher
On the Bench:
Uhm. .... That. ..... And. .. uhm. ... That. ..... And. ..... uhm. ..... That. .... And. ... uhm. ..
waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much
Uhm. .... That. ..... And. .. uhm. ... That. ..... And. ..... uhm. ..... That. .... And. ... uhm. ..
- Panzermeister36
- Sergeant Major

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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
Alrightey thanks for the heads upHollywoodModelling wrote:PM36 I am working on the G1 actually it's the older dragon Kit.. there are some small changes as the vehicle had a different enginge deck and stuff like that.. you might want to check Hamilkar Barkas Channel for an awesome review on the G2! But I had verry few fit issues and the instructions were surprisingly good...
Unleash the DShK!
http://www.youtube.com/user/Panzermeister36
WIPs
Dragon Sd.Kfz.7/2 FlaK 37 - Adam Mann's Halbkettenfahrzeug Gruppenbau
Dragon StuG IV Early - Unarmed Snowplow Modification
Trumpeter BMP-1 w/ BTR-70 Turret
Cyberhobby Geschützwagen 38M FlaK 103/38 - "M" GB
HobbyBoss T-40
Meng T-90
Orochi M3A3 Bradley
http://www.youtube.com/user/Panzermeister36
WIPs
Dragon Sd.Kfz.7/2 FlaK 37 - Adam Mann's Halbkettenfahrzeug Gruppenbau
Dragon StuG IV Early - Unarmed Snowplow Modification
Trumpeter BMP-1 w/ BTR-70 Turret
Cyberhobby Geschützwagen 38M FlaK 103/38 - "M" GB
HobbyBoss T-40
Meng T-90
Orochi M3A3 Bradley
- PaulAyrey
- Sergeant Major of the Army

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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
I'd love to join you guys with this SIG, I have a Panther or two, and a a couple of the variants to choose from!
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Schoof
- Chief Warrant Officer 3

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Re: "dangerous Cat" the Panther SiG
Your welcome to join Paul ! I'll add you to the list then !
On the Bench:
Uhm. .... That. ..... And. .. uhm. ... That. ..... And. ..... uhm. ..... That. .... And. ... uhm. ..
waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much
Uhm. .... That. ..... And. .. uhm. ... That. ..... And. ..... uhm. ..... That. .... And. ... uhm. ..










