Ammo Paints - Important please read

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:44 am

It has come to my attention (and that of several others) that there seems to be an inconsistency with the new Mig Ammo line of paints. A number of the colours from the range appear to have problems separating when airbrushed or brush painted onto a models surface.
This is happening with a number of paints used directly from the bottle and when the affected paints are thinned with normal acrylic thinners, the problem appears as though the paint is separating on the surface similar to the effect caused when mold release is present on plastic, to me its looks as though the paints have too much surface tension which causes them to pool and not adhere properly.

I noticed this problem a couple of weeks ago and when Ammo were told the problem i was informed it may have been a faulty batch,my paints were returned and replaced with new ones. Still the problem persisted, Mike (coen) also contacted myself with the same problem and there are a few other cases to the same effect.

Through trial and error testing (both myself and coen) i found that Mr Hobby Mr Color thinner works perfectly with the affected paints, giving a beautiful finish with ease of spraying. Mr color thinner is a cellulose (lacquer) based thinner and this appears to break the surface tension allowing the paints to adhere properly, I've tested this as too have others and found the paints paint perfectly this way.

Most of the paints can be thinned with acrylic thinners like Ultimate etc, as i proved with the IDF paint set i reviewed and sprayed live on camera, i would say out of the 85 Ammo paints i have approximately 20 are effected and when i get chance i will test each paint and compile a full list of which ones need which thinner to perform effectively. Mike has already tested them but i think theres a few more to be added to the list. Mike also has a short video about this too.

MIg Jimenez and the staff at Ammo are aware of the problem and we are awaiting there response to these findings.

Rest assured using the right thinner the paints are some of the best I've used, the colours are perfectly matched, well pigmented and they airbrush superb.

Coen · Post by **Coen** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:03 pm

In case anyone is interested here is the video. Though not totally related to the issue with the paint, hopefully it will further expand on what Paul has already said.

[youtube]Q0k2-ROJL9o[/youtube]

galileo1 · Post by **galileo1** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:04 pm

Interesting. Is it fair to say then that it would be advisable to use Mr. Color thinner with ALL Ammo paint bottles, regardless of whether or not they are from the bad batch? I mean, the thinner should also work with those colors not affected by the separation issues, right?

Thanks!

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:52 pm

galileo1 wrote:Interesting. Is it fair to say then that it would be advisable to use Mr. Color thinner with ALL Ammo paint bottles, regardless of whether or not they are from the bad batch? I mean, the thinner should also work with those colors not affected by the separation issues, right?

Thanks!

Not sure to be honest, ill still be using acrylic thinner in the ones i can. I plan on testing them all to see which paints are affected, and ill post my finding when i know

MarkVerploeg · Post by **MarkVerploeg** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:21 pm

That is just weird
I only have 2 ammo paints so far and i used a bit of ak thinner in them
They worked just fine
But i am curious to see the results before i decide on getting more

yamyam · Post by **yamyam** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:46 pm

Thanks Paul & Coen for sharing this

got a set of ammo paint on order as a newbie would have
taken me ages to figure this out.

RobertK · Post by **RobertK** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:01 am

*Phew* Was just about to get a load of ammo paint, will stay clear from them until it's resolved. I don't want to spray any lacquer thinner, and my better half would probably kill me, haha.

TechHead · Post by **TechHead** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:02 am

Hi there,

Has anyone tried the problem paints in the Ammo range with the Ammo thinners? I'm just curious if this would also work or if the Ammo thinner is also experiencing an incompatibility.

Thanks for taking the time looking into this guys,

Simon

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:30 am

TechHead wrote:Hi there,

Has anyone tried the problem paints in the Ammo range with the Ammo thinners? I'm just curious if this would also work or if the Ammo thinner is also experiencing an incompatibility.

Thanks for taking the time looking into this guys,

Simon

I'm waiting on a bottle, but I'll be very surprised if it works with the affected paints.

Coen · Post by **Coen** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:36 am

TechHead wrote:Hi there,

Has anyone tried the problem paints in the Ammo range with the Ammo thinners? I'm just curious if this would also work or if the Ammo thinner is also experiencing an incompatibility.

Thanks for taking the time looking into this guys,

Simon

From what I've read so far AMMO thinner is almost the same as Vallejo Airbrush thinner.
I know that Vallejo's doesn't work on the effected paint.
It still requires testing though.
The other downside to the AMMO thinner is the high price tag to bottle ratio. Myself, I wouldn't buy it.

TechHead · Post by **TechHead** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:35 am

Thanks guys.

I have 3 sets of Ammo paints plus a few individual bottles on the way from Tim, so am hoping that not too many of the individual paints are affected especially for a newbie air-brusher such as myself.

Cheers,

Simon

TechHead · Post by **TechHead** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:54 pm

Hi Paul and Coen,

Was just wondering how you guys were getting on with the Mig Ammo paints, are you still finding them usable with the MR Color thinner workaround or is this extra step proving a hassle? I need to buy some new paints, though don't want to make the mistake of going down the wrong path. I am looking at AK's line of paints as an alternative - good idea or worth sticking with the Ammo paints in your opinion?

Thanks,

Simon

Coen · Post by **Coen** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:47 am

Hey Simon,
I'm not having any trouble with them at all now that I can thin them properly. They spray wonderfully.
Paul and I still need to find all of the colours that need either the Lacquer or the acrylic thinners though.
It's a slow process. So far there are about twenty confirmed that need to be thinned with a lacquer.
However, if you're looking for a good and well tested line with a firm r/d history AK is something that you should think about. Akan is also a wonderful line of paints.

TechHead · Post by **TechHead** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:18 am

Coen wrote:Hey Simon,
I'm not having any trouble with them at all now that I can thin them properly. They spray wonderfully.
Paul and I still need to find all of the colours that need either the Lacquer or the acrylic thinners though.
It's a slow process. So far there are about twenty confirmed that need to be thinned with a lacquer.
However, if you're looking for a good and well tested line with a firm r/d history AK is something that you should think about. Akan is also a wonderful line of paints.

Hi Coen,

Thanks so much for the reply. Although I really like the look of the colour kits from Ammo, though I think that as a newbie I will stick to AK for the time being.

Thanks again,

Simon

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:35 am

Hey simon, no real problem with the ammo paint now I've figured out how the thin then, like mike says it's just a case of getting a full list and which ones needs thining with the mr color thinner. I reckon there's about 20-30 of the range that need the thinner, the rest can be thinned with Ultimate no problem. I will test each one and myself and mike can then compare findings

TechHead · Post by **TechHead** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:08 am

Paul wrote:Hey simon, no real problem with the ammo paint now I've figured out how the thin then, like mike says it's just a case of getting a full list and which ones needs thining with the mr color thinner. I reckon there's about 20-30 of the range that need the thinner, the rest can be thinned with Ultimate no problem. I will test each one and myself and mike can then compare findings

Thanks Paul, much appreciated - no small job going through and testing each one.

galileo1 · Post by **galileo1** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:36 pm

For those interested, here's a good thread on what Paul and Mike (Coen) seem to be experiencing with AMMO.

http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op= ... rd=&page=1

Coen · Post by **Coen** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:06 am

That's some interesting reading for sure.
Ian is the US distributor for MIG and Michael is the author of Tank Art.

galileo1 · Post by **galileo1** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:19 am

Coen wrote:That's some interesting reading for sure.
Ian is the US distributor for MIG and Michael is the author of Tank Art.

Yes, indeed. I've dealt with Iain personally when he was setting up shop for AK here in the U.S. He's a really nice guy. Mike Rinaldi is also a top notch dude! Before his Tank Art fame, I emailed him once to ask for some tips on applying pigments. He responded with a load of info and even some pictures to show how to do it.

schweinhund227 · Post by **schweinhund227** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:30 pm

Why not list the Troubled Paint # for those of you that have done the experiment ??
We may have throu our collection some of those but haven't had a chance to use them yet !

instead of letting people fear the entire product line ! as some have alluded...
and postpone using these fine paints....

Please list those 20 odd colours found to be troublesome, so we can stay off those for now...
or check if we have a bad batch as well ?

It is sad but .... those sort of things happens...

Thanks for posting this warning.... I am sure many will find it very useful !

Have a great Week end and Happy modeling !

bluebottle · Post by **bluebottle** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:31 pm

schweinhund227 wrote:Why not list the Troubled Paint # for those of you that have done the experiment ??
We may have throu our collection some of those but haven't had a chance to use them yet !

instead of letting people fear the entire product line ! as some have alluded...
and postpone using these fine paints....

Please list those 20 odd colours found to be troublesome, so we can stay off those for now...
or check if we have a bad batch as well ?

It is sad but .... those sort of things happens...

Thanks for posting this warning.... I am sure many will find it very useful !

Have a great Week end and Happy modeling !

Coen · Post by **Coen** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:14 pm

Here is the my list of the entire line of paints.
The effected paints that Paul and I have discovered and tested so far are marked with ***
As more are found through actual use (as I'm still finding them) I'll add them to the list as single postings.

ACRYLIC PAINTS (17 mL)

A.MIG-001 RAL 6003 OLIVGRÜN OPT.1***
A.MIG-002 RAL 6003 OLIVGRÜN OPT.2
A.MIG-003 RAL 6011 RESEDAGRÜN***
A.MIG-004 RAL 6011 B RESEDAGRÜN
A.MIG-005 RAL 7008 GRAUGRÜN
A.MIG-006 RAL 7008 GRAUGRÜN OPT.2
A.MIG-007 RAL 7017 DUNKELBRAUN
A.MIG-008 RAL 7021 DUNKELGRAU
A.MIG-009 RAL 7027 SANDGRAU***
A.MIG-010 RAL 7028 DUNKELGELB (MID WAR)***
A.MIG-011 RAL 7028 DUNKELGELB AUS ’44 DG I
A.MIG-012 RAL 7028 DUNKELGELB AUS ’44 DG III
A.MIG-013 RAL 8000 GELBBRAUN
A.MIG-014 RAL 8012 ROTBRAUN***
A.MIG-015 RAL 8017 SCHOKOBRAUN
A.MIG-016 RAL 8020 GELBBRAUN
A.MIG-017 RAL 9001 CREMEWEISS
A.MIG-018 WAFFEN SS - POLIZEI GRÜN
A.MIG-024 WASHABEL WHITE CAMO***
A.MIG-025 FS 33446 US MODERN VEHICLES
A.MIG-026 RAL 8031 F9 GERMAN SAND BROWN
A.MIG-027 RAL8031 F9 GERMAN SAND BEIGE
A.MIG-028 RAL7050 F7 GERMAN GREY BEIGE***
A.MIG-029 DESERT SAND
A.MIG-030 SAND YELLOW
A.MIG-031 SPANISH GREEN-KHAKI
A.MIG-032 SATIN BLACK
A.MIG-033 RUBBER & TIRES
A.MIG-034 RUST TRACKS***
A.MIG-035 DARK TRACKS***
A.MIG-036 OLD WOOD
A.MIG-037 NEW WOOD***
A.MIG-038 LIGHT WOOD
A.MIG-039 LIGHT RUST
A.MIG-040 MEDIUM RUST
A.MIG-041 DARK RUST
A.MIG-042 OLD RUST
A.MIG-043 SHADOW RUST
A.MIG-044 CHIPPING
A.MIG-045 GUN METAL
A.MIG-046 MATT BLACK***
A.MIG-047 WHITE
A.MIG-048 YELLOW
A.MIG-049 RED
A.MIG-066 IDF SINAI GREY '82
A.MIG-067 IDF SAND GREY '73
A.MIG-068 IDF GREEN
A.MIG-084 NATO GREEN
A.MIG-085 NATO BROWN***
A.MIG-900 DUNKELGELB SHADOW
A.MIG-901 DUNKELGELB DARK BASE***
A.MIG-902 DUNKELGELB BASE***
A.MIG-903 DUNKELGELB LIGHT BASE***
A.MIG-904 DUNKELGELB HIGH LIGHT***
A.MIG-905 DUNKELGELB SHINE
A.MIG-906 GREY SHADOW
A.MIG-907 GREY DARK BASE
A.MIG-908 GREY BASE
A.MIG-909 GREY LIGHT BASE
A.MIG-910 GREY HIGH LIGHT
A.MIG-911 GREY SHINE
A.MIG-912 RED BROWN SHADOW
A.MIG-913 RED BROWN BASE
A.MIG-914 RED BROWN LIGHT
A.MIG-915 DARK GREEN
A.MIG-916 GREEN BASE
A.MIG-917 LIGHT GREEN
A.MIG-918 RED PRIMER SHADOW***
A.MIG-919 RED PRIMER DARK BASE
A.MIG-920 RED PRIMER BASE***
A.MIG-921 RED PRIMER LIGHT BASE***
A.MIG-922 RED PRIMER HIGH LIGHTS
A.MIG-923 RED PRIMER SHINE
A.MIG-924 OLIVE DRAB SHADOW
A.MIG-925 OLIVE DRAB DARK BASE
A.MIG-926 OLIVE DRAB BASE
A.MIG-927 OLIVE DRAB LIGHT BASE
A.MIG-928 OLIVE DRAB HIGH LIGHTS
A.MIG-929 OLIVE DRAB SHINE
A.MIG-930 RUSSIAN SHADOW***
A.MIG-931 RUSSIAN DARK BASE***
A.MIG-932 RUSSIAN BASE
A.MIG-933 RUSSIAN LIGHT BASE***
A.MIG-934 RUSSIAN HIGH LIGHT***
A.MIG-935 RUSSIAN SHINE***

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:19 pm

schweinhund227 wrote:Why not list the Troubled Paint # for those of you that have done the experiment ??
We may have throu our collection some of those but haven't had a chance to use them yet !

instead of letting people fear the entire product line ! as some have alluded...
and postpone using these fine paints....

Please list those 20 odd colours found to be troublesome, so we can stay off those for now...
or check if we have a bad batch as well ?

It is sad but .... those sort of things happens...

Thanks for posting this warning.... I am sure many will find it very useful !

Have a great Week end and Happy modeling !

When i get a few hours spare i plan to Norm, then i see whats what with mikes and then release the list, no point doing it now as some will no doubt be missing. If coen wants to share his now so be it.

galileo1 · Post by **galileo1** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:23 pm

Coen wrote:Here is the my list of the entire line of paints.
The effected paints that Paul and I have discovered and tested so far are marked with ***
As more are found through actual use (as I'm still finding them) I'll add them to the list as single postings.

ACRYLIC PAINTS (17 mL)

A.MIG-001 RAL 6003 OLIVGRÜN OPT.1***
A.MIG-002 RAL 6003 OLIVGRÜN OPT.2
A.MIG-003 RAL 6011 RESEDAGRÜN***
A.MIG-004 RAL 6011 B RESEDAGRÜN
A.MIG-005 RAL 7008 GRAUGRÜN
A.MIG-006 RAL 7008 GRAUGRÜN OPT.2
A.MIG-007 RAL 7017 DUNKELBRAUN
A.MIG-008 RAL 7021 DUNKELGRAU
A.MIG-009 RAL 7027 SANDGRAU***
A.MIG-010 RAL 7028 DUNKELGELB (MID WAR)***
A.MIG-011 RAL 7028 DUNKELGELB AUS ’44 DG I
A.MIG-012 RAL 7028 DUNKELGELB AUS ’44 DG III
A.MIG-013 RAL 8000 GELBBRAUN
A.MIG-014 RAL 8012 ROTBRAUN***
A.MIG-015 RAL 8017 SCHOKOBRAUN
A.MIG-016 RAL 8020 GELBBRAUN
A.MIG-017 RAL 9001 CREMEWEISS
A.MIG-018 WAFFEN SS - POLIZEI GRÜN
A.MIG-024 WASHABEL WHITE CAMO***
A.MIG-025 FS 33446 US MODERN VEHICLES
A.MIG-026 RAL 8031 F9 GERMAN SAND BROWN
A.MIG-027 RAL8031 F9 GERMAN SAND BEIGE
A.MIG-028 RAL7050 F7 GERMAN GREY BEIGE***
A.MIG-029 DESERT SAND
A.MIG-030 SAND YELLOW
A.MIG-031 SPANISH GREEN-KHAKI
A.MIG-032 SATIN BLACK
A.MIG-033 RUBBER & TIRES
A.MIG-034 RUST TRACKS***
A.MIG-035 DARK TRACKS***
A.MIG-036 OLD WOOD
A.MIG-037 NEW WOOD***
A.MIG-038 LIGHT WOOD
A.MIG-039 LIGHT RUST
A.MIG-040 MEDIUM RUST
A.MIG-041 DARK RUST
A.MIG-042 OLD RUST
A.MIG-043 SHADOW RUST
A.MIG-044 CHIPPING
A.MIG-045 GUN METAL
A.MIG-046 MATT BLACK***
A.MIG-047 WHITE
A.MIG-048 YELLOW
A.MIG-049 RED
A.MIG-066 IDF SINAI GREY '82
A.MIG-067 IDF SAND GREY '73
A.MIG-068 IDF GREEN
A.MIG-084 NATO GREEN
A.MIG-085 NATO BROWN***
A.MIG-900 DUNKELGELB SHADOW
A.MIG-901 DUNKELGELB DARK BASE***
A.MIG-902 DUNKELGELB BASE***
A.MIG-903 DUNKELGELB LIGHT BASE***
A.MIG-904 DUNKELGELB HIGH LIGHT***
A.MIG-905 DUNKELGELB SHINE
A.MIG-906 GREY SHADOW
A.MIG-907 GREY DARK BASE
A.MIG-908 GREY BASE
A.MIG-909 GREY LIGHT BASE
A.MIG-910 GREY HIGH LIGHT
A.MIG-911 GREY SHINE
A.MIG-912 RED BROWN SHADOW
A.MIG-913 RED BROWN BASE
A.MIG-914 RED BROWN LIGHT
A.MIG-915 DARK GREEN
A.MIG-916 GREEN BASE
A.MIG-917 LIGHT GREEN
A.MIG-918 RED PRIMER SHADOW***
A.MIG-919 RED PRIMER DARK BASE
A.MIG-920 RED PRIMER BASE***
A.MIG-921 RED PRIMER LIGHT BASE***
A.MIG-922 RED PRIMER HIGH LIGHTS
A.MIG-923 RED PRIMER SHINE
A.MIG-924 OLIVE DRAB SHADOW
A.MIG-925 OLIVE DRAB DARK BASE
A.MIG-926 OLIVE DRAB BASE
A.MIG-927 OLIVE DRAB LIGHT BASE
A.MIG-928 OLIVE DRAB HIGH LIGHTS
A.MIG-929 OLIVE DRAB SHINE
A.MIG-930 RUSSIAN SHADOW***
A.MIG-931 RUSSIAN DARK BASE***
A.MIG-932 RUSSIAN BASE
A.MIG-933 RUSSIAN LIGHT BASE***
A.MIG-934 RUSSIAN HIGH LIGHT***
A.MIG-935 RUSSIAN SHINE***

Thanks for the list, Mike! I was about to pull the trigger on a few AMMO color sets yesterday but decided to wait for you (or Paul) to release your list before I did anything. Now that I've seen yours, I may just go out and buy those paints not in red while waiting to see if AMMO fixes the issue.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:36 pm

galileo1 wrote:
Coen wrote:Here is the my list of the entire line of paints.
The effected paints that Paul and I have discovered and tested so far are marked with ***
As more are found through actual use (as I'm still finding them) I'll add them to the list as single postings.

ACRYLIC PAINTS (17 mL)

A.MIG-001 RAL 6003 OLIVGRÜN OPT.1***
A.MIG-002 RAL 6003 OLIVGRÜN OPT.2
A.MIG-003 RAL 6011 RESEDAGRÜN***
A.MIG-004 RAL 6011 B RESEDAGRÜN
A.MIG-005 RAL 7008 GRAUGRÜN
A.MIG-006 RAL 7008 GRAUGRÜN OPT.2
A.MIG-007 RAL 7017 DUNKELBRAUN
A.MIG-008 RAL 7021 DUNKELGRAU
A.MIG-009 RAL 7027 SANDGRAU***
A.MIG-010 RAL 7028 DUNKELGELB (MID WAR)***
A.MIG-011 RAL 7028 DUNKELGELB AUS ’44 DG I
A.MIG-012 RAL 7028 DUNKELGELB AUS ’44 DG III
A.MIG-013 RAL 8000 GELBBRAUN
A.MIG-014 RAL 8012 ROTBRAUN***
A.MIG-015 RAL 8017 SCHOKOBRAUN
A.MIG-016 RAL 8020 GELBBRAUN
A.MIG-017 RAL 9001 CREMEWEISS
A.MIG-018 WAFFEN SS - POLIZEI GRÜN
A.MIG-024 WASHABEL WHITE CAMO***
A.MIG-025 FS 33446 US MODERN VEHICLES
A.MIG-026 RAL 8031 F9 GERMAN SAND BROWN
A.MIG-027 RAL8031 F9 GERMAN SAND BEIGE
A.MIG-028 RAL7050 F7 GERMAN GREY BEIGE***
A.MIG-029 DESERT SAND
A.MIG-030 SAND YELLOW
A.MIG-031 SPANISH GREEN-KHAKI
A.MIG-032 SATIN BLACK
A.MIG-033 RUBBER & TIRES
A.MIG-034 RUST TRACKS***
A.MIG-035 DARK TRACKS***
A.MIG-036 OLD WOOD
A.MIG-037 NEW WOOD***
A.MIG-038 LIGHT WOOD
A.MIG-039 LIGHT RUST
A.MIG-040 MEDIUM RUST
A.MIG-041 DARK RUST
A.MIG-042 OLD RUST
A.MIG-043 SHADOW RUST
A.MIG-044 CHIPPING
A.MIG-045 GUN METAL
A.MIG-046 MATT BLACK***
A.MIG-047 WHITE
A.MIG-048 YELLOW
A.MIG-049 RED
A.MIG-066 IDF SINAI GREY '82
A.MIG-067 IDF SAND GREY '73
A.MIG-068 IDF GREEN
A.MIG-084 NATO GREEN
A.MIG-085 NATO BROWN***
A.MIG-900 DUNKELGELB SHADOW
A.MIG-901 DUNKELGELB DARK BASE***
A.MIG-902 DUNKELGELB BASE***
A.MIG-903 DUNKELGELB LIGHT BASE***
A.MIG-904 DUNKELGELB HIGH LIGHT***
A.MIG-905 DUNKELGELB SHINE
A.MIG-906 GREY SHADOW
A.MIG-907 GREY DARK BASE
A.MIG-908 GREY BASE
A.MIG-909 GREY LIGHT BASE
A.MIG-910 GREY HIGH LIGHT
A.MIG-911 GREY SHINE
A.MIG-912 RED BROWN SHADOW
A.MIG-913 RED BROWN BASE
A.MIG-914 RED BROWN LIGHT
A.MIG-915 DARK GREEN
A.MIG-916 GREEN BASE
A.MIG-917 LIGHT GREEN
A.MIG-918 RED PRIMER SHADOW***
A.MIG-919 RED PRIMER DARK BASE
A.MIG-920 RED PRIMER BASE***
A.MIG-921 RED PRIMER LIGHT BASE***
A.MIG-922 RED PRIMER HIGH LIGHTS
A.MIG-923 RED PRIMER SHINE
A.MIG-924 OLIVE DRAB SHADOW
A.MIG-925 OLIVE DRAB DARK BASE
A.MIG-926 OLIVE DRAB BASE
A.MIG-927 OLIVE DRAB LIGHT BASE
A.MIG-928 OLIVE DRAB HIGH LIGHTS
A.MIG-929 OLIVE DRAB SHINE
A.MIG-930 RUSSIAN SHADOW***
A.MIG-931 RUSSIAN DARK BASE***
A.MIG-932 RUSSIAN BASE
A.MIG-933 RUSSIAN LIGHT BASE***
A.MIG-934 RUSSIAN HIGH LIGHT***
A.MIG-935 RUSSIAN SHINE***
Thanks for the list, Mike! I was about to pull the trigger on a few AMMO color sets yesterday but decided to wait for you (or Paul) to release your list before I did anything. Now that I've seen yours, I may just go out and buy those paints not in red while waiting to see if AMMO fixes the issue.

Ammo wont fix the issue, as fair as they are concerned there is no issue to fix. Just use mr hobby mr colour thinner on the effected paints

schweinhund227 · Post by **schweinhund227** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:19 pm

Thank you for posting the KNOWN list....

its quite extensive !!! *RED ones...

as for shooting Lacquer Thinner through my A/B... ! No thanks!

Keep us informed guys !!!

That's an important tread !

chief5437 · Post by **chief5437** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:04 pm

Jeez Coen! That list must've taken an age to type, let alone test! I don't have any ammo paints, but big thanks to you & Paul for taking the time to test them!

schweinhund227 · Post by **schweinhund227** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:17 pm

Plz... have a Monitor Put this tread as a STICKY at the top !!! Its important information guys !

Post by **Lee** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:41 pm

schweinhund227 wrote:Plz... have a Monitor Put this tread as a STICKY at the top !!! Its important information guys !

Sorted

schweinhund227 · Post by **schweinhund227** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:04 pm

Thank you Lee!

Tiger131 · Post by **Tiger131** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:34 pm

yeh will avoid the complete selection off these paints then like the plague

..cheers for the heads up might try pauls new brand forgot the name now but i no its a Russian make

schweinhund227 · Post by **schweinhund227** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:30 am

See ! That's what I feared would happen...

You don't have to Fear the whole line up !
just the Red ones for now.....

mick · Post by **mick** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:08 am

thanks for the list Coen

Tiger131 · Post by **Tiger131** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:34 am

No but I dont want them thinners in my house nothing to do with problems..I wont use enamel paints because of the nasty smell..so they have done me a big favour doesn't mean other people cant or wont buy them...and to be fare its migs fault for not acknowledging the problem as well

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:17 am

Tiger131 wrote:yeh will avoid the complete selection off these paints then like the plague ..cheers for the heads up might try pauls new brand forgot the name now but i no its a Russian make

Akan

and they are a Finish company

Tiger131 · Post by **Tiger131** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:45 am

Thats the name cheers paul..

Switcher · Post by **Switcher** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:51 pm

Wow! 28% of the line up is affected to date??? Thanks for all the hard work guys and taking one for the team.

Coen · Post by **Coen** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:00 pm

They are still perfectly usable paint (well maybe not perfect) if they are thinned properly and you use proper ventilation. Which we should be doing anyway when spraying paints.
It's unfortunate that they have to be thinned with lacquer, but they still work.
Like I had said, I plan to continue using mine until they are gone. Hopefully by then the thinning issue will have been resolved.
If not I'll just use someone else's products.

martin57 · Post by **martin57** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:42 pm

thancks paul and coen for all your info and help on this problem it is much appreciated .

prvtsnafu · Post by **prvtsnafu** » Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:34 am

In reference to the ammo paints, Mig just posted a how to guide on using his paint.

http://www.migjimenez.com/en/module/csb ... sults.html

Might help some who are having problems with the ammo brand.

Kevin H.

Grady · Post by **Grady** » Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:02 am

prvtsnafu wrote:In reference to the ammo paints, Mig just posted a how to guide on using his paint.

http://www.migjimenez.com/en/module/csb ... sults.html

Might help some who are having problems with the ammo brand.

Kevin H.

Thanks for the link.

Just read the guide and i noticed something strange... The phrase "surface tension" was repeated an awful lot... I wonder why?

Switcher · Post by **Switcher** » Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:01 pm

... at least he came about with some clarification.

Regardless we knew he would defend his product when he chimed in, it was to be expected. That being said...

I would like to point out a few things that I have picked up on airbrushing in general and not directly related to modelling. It goes without saying that this forums has some serious airbrushers out there, with a ton more experience than I. That being said experience at times gets replaced with complacency (IMHO) and we tend to forget minor tidbits of lessons learned. A graphic anecdote...

A friend of mine had a serious crotch affliction, developed from retrieving something out of the Lisbon Harbour (he was a ship's diver) The long and short of this story, after seeing numerous dermatologist over the course of 2 yrs, he still had his skin condition, and as time progressed was getting worse. One day he was referred to this young buck and within a month his skin condition had cleared up to never return. Of course he was amazed with the result and the ensuing Q was how did you know what to do? Simple, I am fresh out of med school and learned/read about it. We treated you on a hunch based on what had been done, the severity of the rash, what worked and what didn't, in short you exhibited all the symptoms of X, a rare parasite that surfaces occasionally. If I wasn't fresh out of med school, I probably would have missed it as well.

What I have learned outside the modelling community:

Airbrushes have been around a lot longer than modellers have been using them in our craft;
Artist usually don't stray away from what works for them. If it ain't broken, don't try to fix it (more graphic but filters do not permit);
Air pressure is critical 12-15psi, for various reasons. Do not look for coverage, build up in layers (yes I know we know this);
Too much air pressure results in too much paint velocity at the nozzle, resulting in paint drying to quickly (e.g in the air travelling to the subject), causing tip dry etc... especially with acrylic paints, more specifically alcohol based acrylics;
To much air pressure in the above instance will provide a sort of "talc" surface on the subject. The result of a semi dry paint, or the paint being incapable of properly levelling on the surface, because it is too dry;
They normally do not mix brands, between their layers e.g primers, base colours top coats etc...;
They stick to a known brand with known results;
Should they try a different brand it is only after thorough testing on an insignificant subject, will that paint be used professionally;
Many use flow aid or a retarder in their mixes to increase the paint's levelling effect and increase drying time;
Depending on the subject, they will at times use an accelerator with their paints. They are also WELL aware that one product doesn't do it all, very few products if any can support those claims because it's a fact of life something will suffer to see gains in other or specific areas;

The aforementioned info is widely available outside our community. One doesn't go to horticulture schools to learn how to rebuild an engine, why should we as modellers be any different? Go to the source...

Mig touched on properly mixed paint. I have only been at this a short while but from what I have seen and learned, stirring is better than shaking. That is also why I do not use closed top containers, ya can't get a paint mixer in them. The ball bearing does help, but IMHO it never mixes the paint as thoroughly as stirring.

Forums are a great resource, unfortunately more often than not are extremely biased (in general). If you have something that works for you, why change it? If you are a clutz, please don't believe that a $300 AB will get you there. It may improve the final result marginally but, it's the techniques that provide results. A true artist can make any airbrush sing, including what we deem as junk. Nonetheless, a fine AB in the hands of such artists, and they are performing a ballet. Therefore if we are not ballerinas, I believe attending ballet classes would pay larger dividends in becoming ballerinas.

In closing, never feel afraid or embarrassed to go outside the community in seeking specialized information. Now it could be argued that what we do is sort of unique, I will never argue that. However IMHO going to the source will pay larger dividends, why? They have been at it a lot longer than us

schweinhund227 · Post by **schweinhund227** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:38 pm

Just got the news that YouTuber ScaleModelAlberta purchased a large amount of Ammo paints recently !

Mostly those AMMO paints you guys took the time to test and listed above... as being troublesome.
This information hasn't been broadcasted Enough it seems !

He is now sitting on 80$ worth of.... paints that are for the most part defective....

Is there a way to pin this tread or duplicate it some how ??? so that more peoples will be made aware of this
situation until it is resolved by the manufacturer ??

I am not demanding.... just suggesting ! if it is already at the TOP !!! that's perfect !

Sad to hear friends and fellow YouTubers are falling in the trap !
which I've got a taste of it just recently !

Take care guys and make a list of the trouble paints # and stir away from those troublesome ones... until new batches are made available !

Have a good day guys !

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:07 pm

schweinhund227 wrote:Just got the news that YouTuber ScaleModelAlberta purchased a large amount of Ammo paints recently !

Mostly those AMMO paints you guys took the time to test and listed above... as being troublesome.
This information hasn't been broadcasted Enough it seems !

He is now sitting on 80$ worth of.... paints that are for the most part defective....

Is there a way to pin this tread or duplicate it some how ??? so that more peoples will be made aware of this
situation until it is resolved by the manufacturer ??

I am not demanding.... just suggesting ! if it is already at the TOP !!! that's perfect !

Sad to hear friends and fellow YouTubers are falling in the trap !
which I've got a taste of it just recently !

Take care guys and make a list of the trouble paints # and stir away from those troublesome ones... until new batches are made available !

Have a good day guys !

Its a sticky on the forum already not much more we can do about that really, you can spread the link around though

ForbesHutton · Post by **ForbesHutton** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:16 am

Mig has a video up now about how to use the paint:

[youtube]yZHAqxSHHvc[/youtube]

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:34 am

Yep seen it, still doesn't work properly though, even using that "technique" that i use on every paint i use

pmarshall · Post by **pmarshall** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:41 am

Well they work for me - they are picky about building up paint slowly, need slightly more air than normal, and are easier for fine lines with a couple of drops of thinner ( AK or Ammo ).

They still aren't Gunze thinned with Mr Levelling Thinner ....

Peter

MarkVerploeg · Post by **MarkVerploeg** » Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:14 pm

Well i have been messing around with these paints and tried each and every tip and trick that has been posted here and by Ammo on youtube
And i can say that i will not be buying them anymore
I get far better results with proven brands like vallejo, tamiya and mr hobby aqueous
They state in the their video on how to use these paints that it is a real acrylic paint and is a bit more demanding then tamiya and mr hobby because those are laquer type acrylics
Fine with me as i am used to vallejo too wich is a "real" acrylic
But i find that ammo seperates in the airbrush and sprays very inregularly
There is no consistancy what so ever
I get nearly dry splatters at times followed by a splash of thinner
So i don't understand why they dare to hint that it should be the modellers miss doing
If your product needs that much care when it is used comparred to other it shows that you have a product that is not suited for everyone and is clearly of less quality then the product your competitors in the market produce
The only paints i like thus far come from the rust effects set and i brushpaint those
After i drop them on a piece of paper to get rid of some of the thinner because they are a bit thin for my liking
I am no expert by any means but after well over 50 models that where painted using a airbrush i like to think i kind of know what i am doing
I have no bad thing to say about their weathering products as those work
But i think they should have left the paints alone and let the guys that make good paints do what they do and stick to weathering themselves
But now my rant is over and next time i spend my money on paint i can trust in and that actually work

APC227 · Post by **APC227** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:39 pm

Does that count for the AK paints aswell? Because AK and Ammo are pretty much...the same? No?

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:41 pm

APC227 wrote:Does that count for the AK paints aswell? Because AK and Ammo are pretty much...the same? No?

No the new formula ak are totally different paints that spray perfectly