ISM Paint guide

[jbank]

I joined this forum primarily because of factual errors in the ISM youtube paint guides. The errors I speak of are:

• 1. Tamiya acrylic paints can't be brushed.
  2. GSI/Creos Mr. Color Leveling Thinner causes paint cure times to be long.

The problem with brushing Tamiya acrylics is the paint starts to cure between brush strokes. This is a true, but only when the paint is not properly thinned. The solution is to use X-20A thinner AND Tamiya's Paint Retarder (Acrylic). When properly thinned and retarded, Tamiya Acrylic paints are a join to use. With proper thinning, IMO they work better than any other acrylic model paint currently on the market. The trick, and it's a very minor trick, is to use Tamiya's retarder.



You can slow the cure time using other retarders. I've tried GSI's Mr. Retarder Mild (love the name), Golden's, Windor & Newton, and even glycerin. All make brushing better, but are nowhere as good as Tamiya's brand retarder.

For my recent Fujimi Type 10 build, I sprayed Tamiya JGSDF colors for the main camo and brushed the road wheel rubber with Tamiya acrylics thinned as above. It took about an hour to paint all the rubber. I used the same thinned/retarded paint from start to finish. No lifting. No rollover.



Can you tell which paints were sprayed and which were brushed? This is a 72nd scale model and sizes are greatly magnified.

Regarding GSI/Creos' Mr. Color Leveling Thinne, this is a lacquer thinner. It's basically the same as their Mr. Color Thinner but with a retarding agent added. This is to keep Mr Color paints from spider webbing when it is sprayed. The retarder keeps the paint from drying before it hits the model surface. Actual drying time for these paints is minutes. After spraying Mr Color lacquers thinned with Leveling thinner, I can mask and spray another color within 15 minutes. Mr. Color may increase drying or cure times for other paint lines, but not the ones for which it was designed.

I suspect you probably have difficulty obtaining Mr Color paints in the UK. They are available from many Hong Kong based mail order shops (maybe MDC?). So if you can't get the paint or don't want to bother with international mail order, why should you use Mr. Color Leveling Thinner? That's simple, this is a fantastic thinner for Mr Hobby and Tamiya acrylics when spraying. Unless I'm looking for special weathering effects using Tamiya acrylics, I use Leveling Thinner. The paint sprays better and it dries harder. Another advantage for using these GSI thinners is that they are safe to use on plastic without using any sort of barrier coat. They will not etch the plastic like most lacquer thinners. They are really good for removing paint without damaging the model.

Mention is made in one of these paint guides of the odd colors in the Tamiya Acrylic line. These paints match JPMA standards, so they are shades Japanese modelers need when doing cars and trains.

[Paul]

I joined this forum primarily because of factual errors in the ISM youtube paint guides. The errors I speak of are:

• 1. Tamiya acrylic paints can't be brushed.
  2. GSI/Creos Mr. Color Leveling Thinner causes paint cure times to be long.

The problem with brushing Tamiya acrylics is the paint starts to cure between brush strokes. This is a true, but only when the paint is not properly thinned. The solution is to use X-20A thinner AND Tamiya's Paint Retarder (Acrylic). When properly thinned and retarded, Tamiya Acrylic paints are a join to use. With proper thinning, IMO they work better than any other acrylic model paint currently on the market. The trick, and it's a very minor trick, is to use Tamiya's retarder.



You can slow the cure time using other retarders. I've tried GSI's Mr. Retarder Mild (love the name), Golden's, Windor & Newton, and even glycerin. All make brushing better, but are nowhere as good as Tamiya's brand retarder.

For my recent Fujimi Type 10 build, I sprayed Tamiya JGSDF colors for the main camo and brushed the road wheel rubber with Tamiya acrylics thinned as above. It took about an hour to paint all the rubber. I used the same thinned/retarded paint from start to finish. No lifting. No rollover.



Can you tell which paints were sprayed and which were brushed? This is a 72nd scale model and sizes are greatly magnified.

Regarding GSI/Creos' Mr. Color Leveling Thinne, this is a lacquer thinner. It's basically the same as their Mr. Color Thinner but with a retarding agent added. This is to keep Mr Color paints from spider webbing when it is sprayed. The retarder keeps the paint from drying before it hits the model surface. Actual drying time for these paints is minutes. After spraying Mr Color lacquers thinned with Leveling thinner, I can mask and spray another color within 15 minutes. Mr. Color may increase drying or cure times for other paint lines, but not the ones for which it was designed.

I suspect you probably have difficulty obtaining Mr Color paints in the UK. They are available from many Hong Kong based mail order shops (maybe MDC?). So if you can't get the paint or don't want to bother with international mail order, why should you use Mr. Color Leveling Thinner? That's simple, this is a fantastic thinner for Mr Hobby and Tamiya acrylics when spraying. Unless I'm looking for special weathering effects using Tamiya acrylics, I use Leveling Thinner. The paint sprays better and it dries harder. Another advantage for using these GSI thinners is that they are safe to use on plastic without using any sort of barrier coat. They will not etch the plastic like most lacquer thinners. They are really good for removing paint without damaging the model.

Mention is made in one of these paint guides of the odd colors in the Tamiya Acrylic line. These paints match JPMA standards, so they are shades Japanese modelers need when doing cars and trains.

Vallejo model colour brush paint a hell of a lot better than tamiya acrylics and with out all the faff of having to use all sorts of thinners and retarders. Give me model colour anyday.

Mr color is not readily available, but mr hobby aqueous is and airbrushes superb (much better than tamiya) and it even brush paints well straight out the bottle.

As for thinners Ultimate thinner thins all the paints perfectly fine so again no need to mess about with levelling thinners or lacquer thinners and I've never seen aqueous spider web, why use cellulose based paint when acrylic works perfectly.

Odd colours in the tamiya range would most probably be referring to the fact that the tamiya range don't really commit or match most actual colours they are mostly a near enough or close enough match, i.e. mr hobby do the rlm colours, tamiya do ones that are close but not actual matches, the same way tamiya instruction paint callouts are often way off, often even being the wrong colour.

As for factual errors i think you find that its actually opinion, as are those of yours above, doesn't mean either of us are right.

[jbank]

Sorry, Paul, but fact is Tamiya acrylics do brush very well. You understand the need to thin other paint lines. Why is it a problem to thin this one properly?

[Paul]

Sorry, Paul, but fact is Tamiya acrylics do brush very well. You understand the need to thin other paint lines. Why is it a problem to thin this one properly?

They well may, my opinion is and always will be vallejo model colour brush paint better with less faffing about. Have you used vallejo model colour?

[jbank]

Yes, I have used Vallejo, although they are not easily obtained here. The only shop I've found with them is a 1.5 hour train trip to Akihabara. Now, I enjoy going there, but not to get a jar of paint.

That's not my point and I'm not trying to tell you not to use any particular paint you may choose. The point is you stated that Tamiya acrylics are terrible when brush applied. My point is that they do brush extremely well, but must be applied properly. It is opinion that Vallejo or Tamiya brush better. But it is not fact that Tamiya acrylics cannot be brushed.

I was surprised that you rated Tamiya enamels so highly and over Humbrol enamels. I'm more surprised that you knew of them than anything else. I'm not trying to insult you here. It's just I've never seen these enamels outside of Japan and no one speaks of them except to say 'wonder how they are?'. As opinions go, I totally agree with you here. Tamiya's pigments are finely ground and the paint is of very high quality. AND they are in those twist off bottles. I do like that the colors match the acrylics. This allows color matching when using dissimilar paint types for weathering purposes. It also means all those paint mix formulas for the acrylics work equally well with the enamels.

These days I find myself using synthetic lacquers and enamels almost equally, but I have uses for the enamels also. But then, I also find uses for gouache, oils, tube acrylics, inks, pastels, and colored pencils. Each has it's place and sometimes that place is unique to that medium.

[Paul]

Yes, I have used Vallejo, although they are not easily obtained here. The only shop I've found with them is a 1.5 hour train trip to Akihabara. Now, I enjoy going there, but not to get a jar of paint.

Same point for tamiya retarder, its not available in the uk so i would have to purchase from the far east. Most paints are available in the uk with exception to tamiya enamels, which i managed to acquire in a modelling haul i won on ebay.

It is horses for courses as you say and i use a multitude of paints and mediums, but the truth of the matter is I'm using tamiya acrylics less and less these days as mr hobby are the superior paint imo, both in how they airbrush and the colour range too.

[jbank]

I expect Tamiya's retarder isn't there, but other retarders that work almost as well are. This is belaboring the point.

As you like Mr Hobby Acqueous, try using an acrylic retarder when you brush them. I'm sure you'll see a marked improvement in performance. You don't have to use Mr Retarder Mild. Windsor & Newton's will work almost as well.

[hamish]

Hi, I would like some advice on airbrushing stripped die cast vehicles a) do I need a primer? If so what is best. b) which is best acrylic or enamel? If acrylic will it need a top coat?
Thanks in advance

[Paul]

Hi, I would like some advice on airbrushing stripped die cast vehicles a) do I need a primer? If so what is best. b) which is best acrylic or enamel? If acrylic will it need a top coat?
Thanks in advance

Hi, I would use a primer along the lines of ak/ammo or Vallejo, I would use acrylic paint due to the ease of use and use a Matt, satin or gloss varnish to seal and protect the paintwork

[peppie]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the tutorials, the're great

Few questions:
I want to start using the Mr. metallic colors on engines and stuff, but I also want to have metal paints for painting airplanes. So I was thinking of buying Mr. Metallc burnt Iron and a few Alclad colors.
Now I understand you can use cellulose thinner for cleaning after Alclad, but what do you use for cleaning after Mr. Metallics?
Also, do I need to use the Alclad primer or can I also use like Vallejo primer (and then I mean for colours like aluminium, not high gloss chrome)?
When i do need Alclad primer, can I use this also as a base for acryllics?

Sorry for all the questions, but I don't want to waste a lot of money on all different primers and thinners.

Thanks mate

[Paul]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the tutorials, the're great

Few questions:
I want to start using the Mr. metallic colors on engines and stuff, but I also want to have metal paints for painting airplanes. So I was thinking of buying Mr. Metallc burnt Iron and a few Alclad colors.
Now I understand you can use cellulose thinner for cleaning after Alclad, but what do you use for cleaning after Mr. Metallics? Yep cellulose for those too
Also, do I need to use the Alclad primer or can I also use like Vallejo primer (and then I mean for colours like aluminium, not high gloss chrome)? I would stick to using alclads primer for any alclad metal colour, it sticks like hit to a blanket and is made for use with their paints
When i do need Alclad primer, can I use this also as a base for acrylics? Yeah you can use it with acrylics as i said above its really hard wearing but does needs spraying at a lower pressure and you can get a bit of a rough texture from it so it may need some light sanding, but it dries hard as nails and dries really really fast so ideal if you need to paint on it quickly.

Sorry for all the questions, but I don't want to waste a lot of money on all different primers and thinners.

Thanks mate

Anytime mate

[peppie]

Thanks for the fast response?

Found the cellulose thinner.
One more question : since the cellulose thinner is such nasty stuff, do you use something for rinsing your ab after using this? Or is it safe for the inner bearings and stuff? I use a H&S Ultra, thinking about buying a cheap one for use with the cellulose stuff.

[Paul]

Thanks for the fast response?

Found the cellulose thinner.
One more question : since the cellulose thinner is such nasty stuff, do you use something for rinsing your ab after using this? Or is it safe for the inner bearings and stuff? I use a H&S Ultra, thinking about buying a cheap one for use with the cellulose stuff.

If it's an airbrush with orings then cellulose will swell them and they will fall apart you need cellulose proof seals all the H&S have those.

[peppie]

OK, so better ask first if the seals are cellulose-proof on the cheaper ab, or start saving for an extra H&S ab.

Thanks

[Paul]

OK, so better ask first if the seals are cellulose-proof on the cheaper ab, or start saving for an extra H&S ab.

Thanks

I'll put money on it not having cellulose proof seals

[peppie]

Ok, so I went to the (not so local) airbrush shop. Just to inform about the possibilities, thinking maybe I buy an extra Ultra.
Look what I ended up with...


It's the silverline with 0.15 and 0.4 needles, pinchcap, extension (cause I've got big hands) and cap.

Ooops, thought I was on a budget. Gues I'm getting some flowers for the wife now.. .

But, I'm happy as a dog with two dicks

Also bought this to get me started.


Tried them with the Ultra and the 0.4 needle, 15 psi, but it goes through like water. Maybe to big with the needle.
So I gues I'm waiting for your tutorial on how to spray them.
Anyway, the primer sprays beautifully.

[Paul]

Nice and yeah the .2 needle is better really

[martinj]

Hi.. Wounder if anyone knows of somewhere with the full list of the mr hobby paints range, thinking of buying the lot,
Can't seem to find a one stop shop with the whole range, and knowing my luck would probably be buying doubles and trippel,
of the same colour.

[JohnModeller]

This video has recently helped me convert from Humbrol enamels to the Mr Hobby Gunze Sangyo acrylics and buy an AB- an Iwata neo. This is a great series of videos.
John

[Paul]

Nice one John, you won't regret it mate

[kozzybear]

Hey does anyone know if thinner needs to be added to acrylic paint or enamel wash before applying it with a brush? First time painting a model so i don't want to mess up hugely

[Ranson52]

I too watched the vids and thouroughly enjoyed them.
I too am new to this airbrushing lark, so if okay I have a couple of questions.

I bought a Badger 105 Patriot, and so far, haven't even used it makes me nervous just thinking about it.

So, I unfortunately bought a range of Humbrol enamels, but reading this thread think I should go with the Tamiya Acrylics.

Hunting high and low, I cannot find an easy to understand colour conversion chart between Humbrol and Tamiya, can someone link me to a suitable chart please ?

Any help would be very much appreciated.

[thing]

http://www.ipmsoc.org/?q=content/paint-conversion-chart

There ya go.

[Tacoman2000]

ARE THE ALCLAD PAINTS WORTH BUYING??

[Paul]

ARE THE ALCLAD PAINTS WORTH BUYING??

Yes they are superb, its as simple as that

[Tacoman2000]

My next question is then, do you have to use the alclad primer or can any good primer work with the alclad paints? I have watched the paint guides on the youtube channel, but just wanted to verify what I was hearing.

[Paul]

I would personally use the alclad primers, the paint bottles tell you which primer to use for each colour

[Tacoman2000]

Thanks Paul! I have learned so much in the last few days going through the forum and reading as much as I can. I'm sure I will have more questions though.

[Paul]

Thanks Paul! I have learned so much in the last few days going through the forum and reading as much as I can. I'm sure I will have more questions though.

Anytime buddy, just fire away

[giannissma]

What primer for gunze -tamiya colours?

[DBMiller]

Paul, since this thread is still active I will ask my question here. I've just re-watched your 2 part run through of paints and was wondering, since there are a number of new paints on the market (and on your paint rack!), would you recommend different paints than you did in 2013?

Thanks,
DBM

[KnightTemplar]

Hi
A few questions from a newbie if that's ok?
I only just starting with this so be gentle eh?
Can I paint one colour of a camouflage in enamel and then paint the next touching colour in acrylic?
I bought some Humbrol Clear which I now know is acrylic based, could I still use it over an enamel coat?

Sorry, but I have a lot to learn.

[Tacoman2000]

I have a question, and it may have been asked and answered already, but I am going to ask anyways.

So I have been looking for the Mr Hobby Aqueous paints and have not been able to find a website that has them in stock and will ship to the US.
My question is this, is the My Hobby H2 a water based paint? Isn't that what the Aqueous paints are? I am just looking for some clarification on the Mr Hobby paint lines. Thank you for any information

[JudgeDredd]

Lee/Paul

Thank you very much for these videos.

I wonder if you could maybe help me with a problem I've recently come across using Vallejo Model Air...I posted about it here
http://www.intscalemodeller.com/viewtop ... 55&t=13989

I just don't know what I did wrong. I have had no problems at all using/thinning my Tamiya paints and this was the first time I used the Vallejo Model Air (my wife bought me two box sets for my birthday) and I'm scared to use them again.

Any help would be appreciated.

[Maverik]

Hi paul i have the iwata neo and eclipse are these ab ok with cellulose based stuff

[Maverik]

Paul I will take your advice on the paints I'm building a hasagawa FA 18 c in 1:48 The paint call out are mr hobby so i have some already, but plan on getting the lot some time in the future vallejo are next aswell .So far I have purchased a fair bit of stuff on your recommendation and reviews so thankyou