Dragon 1/35 Pz.Kpfw.II Ausf.C..(formally grenadiers)

generalgrog · Post by **generalgrog** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:41 pm

OK..I've been waiting and watching for this build to start. I kept looking for it and didn't realize it wasn't going to start until NOV 1st, or I would have purchased a kit by now.

I have been wanting to do a panzer grenadier dio for some time, and this will be a perfect opportunity for me.

So anyway, this will be my first SIG as a new member, and as soon as I get a kit/kits I will post the boxes and pics.

GG

EDIT...So I couldn't find what I needed for grenadiers on short notice so I called an audible and picked up a nice Panzer II C and some Afrika Corps figs....see my post below for build info.

Panzermeister36 · Post by **Panzermeister36** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:17 pm

Got an idea on the kit? I'd love to see your work, this is my first GB/SiG on ISM too!

Dunhill2005 · Post by **Dunhill2005** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:20 pm

My first SIG too

generalgrog · Post by **generalgrog** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:20 pm

Panzermeister36 wrote:Got an idea on the kit? I'd love to see your work, this is my first GB/SiG on ISM too!

I did want to do the Dragon 1/35 Kit #6572 German Pz.Kpfw II Ausf. B.

Same kit as "out of the box" is building here..

http://intscalemodeller.com/viewtopic.php?f=156&t=3090

But I would have to buy it online, and it won't get here until mid to late next week...so I'm making a trip up to one of the local hobby stores in a bit and see what they have. The first hobby store ( I called) was a bust..No panzer II's or grenadiers in 1/35.

As for the grenadiers I'm thinking a combination of Master Box Grenadiers and Tamiya's grenadiers, but again..time is short so I'll take what I can get at the hobby store at this point.

GG

generalgrog · Post by **generalgrog** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:15 am

Allright guys..sorry for the confusion. I'm still getting the hang of the hobby after a 25 year hiatus(focused on fantasy wargaming for a long time).

So after a visit to the hobby shop they didn't have any panzer grenadier figures, but they had this nice Dragon Panzer II C and some Tamiya, Afrika corps figs. So I thought, that I could still do a 10th panzer Div model but instead of France I will build it in Tunisia.

So on to the initial box art and spruage.

This kit looks awesome, and I'm quite happy with whats inside.

And since I'm kind of a figure painter, I have to have some figs to go with the tank!!

So I can't wait to start on this build, I really was looking forward to it after watching the youtube video, where Lee mentioned it, but for the life of me I could not find mention of a start date date anywhere(I looked all over the SIG forums). Maybe someone can direct me to how I can find out when builds are going to start?

As mentioned previously I had intended to build a panzer grenadier regiment, and I was planning on doing the Großdeutschland regiment which was attached to 10th panzer during the battle of France. Why the Großdeutschland division you ask? That's because I am also a boardgamer wargamer and one of my favorite games was called GD' 40 and it was part of a series of games based on battles this famous Vehrmacht unit fought in, all the way through getting annihilated in Russia.

So anyway..I've rambled enough..next post will have some history of the 10th panzer in Tunisia.

(And I have to order some Afrika corps paints now)

GG

coladito1 · Post by **coladito1** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:18 am

Great kit!! Glad you joined us!!

Post by **Lee** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:33 am

Hey grog - I won't be using the figures (apart from the commander) that with my Tamiya kit (Afrika corps). If you want them, just let me know and I'll pop them in the post to you

generalgrog · Post by **generalgrog** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:20 pm

That would be great Lee! Thanks a lot.

I'll send a PM.

GG

spruecutter · Post by **spruecutter** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:21 pm

generalgrog wrote:
So I can't wait to start on this build, I really was looking forward to it after watching the youtube video, where Lee mentioned it, but for the life of me I could not find mention of a start date date anywhere(I looked all over the SIG forums). Maybe someone can direct me to how I can find out when builds are going to start?GG

I expect you've probably found the date by now but if not, it's on the main GB/SIG page, details copied below.

Board index » Forum Group Builds & SiGs

"Holy Toledo, it's a Panzer II" SiG
Luis's very own SiG on the Panzer II - Sponsored by Ultimate Modelling Products

1st November 2013 - 31st December 2013

Nice kit. I'll enjoy watching this one come together.

generalgrog · Post by **generalgrog** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:37 pm

A little background for my build, if you like history as much as I do....

.....................................................................................................
The 10th Panzer-Division was an armored division of the Wehrmacht during the Second World War. It fought with value on the Western Front in 1940, on the Eastern Front in 1941 to 1942 and in North African Campaign in 1942 to 1943. It was completely destroyed, after a brave resistance, along with all the Axis forces in Tunisia in May 1943.

Transported at high speed to Tunisia as a result of ‘Operation Torch in late November and early December 1942 (landed in Tunisian territory with 21 Panzer II, 105 Panzer III, 20 Panzer IV tanks) the 10th Panzer prepared for action, reinforced also by 20 Panzer III and 16 Panzer VI of Schwere Panzerabteilung 501 (501 º heavy tank battalion) which will form the third battalion of the 7th armored regiment.

Entry into combat was immediate, the division organized in two, Kampfgruppen Hudel and Lueder, played a decisive role in the Battle of Tebourba (1 to 5 December 1942), inflicting a serious defeat to the Anglo-American avant-garde, marching on Tunis and stabilizing the precarious Tunisian front. Over 100 armored vehicles were destroyed of the fierce fighting allies.

On February 14, 1943 began the Battle of Sidi Bou Zid with brilliant results for the 10th Panzer-Division: in two days Kampfgruppen Gerhardt Reimann had destroyed 97 enemy tanks with minimal losses, demonstrating the great skills of the crews of the tactical and operational panzers. The fighting continued with the 21st Panzer-Division, but after another victory at Kasserine, fuel shortages and the numerical preponderance and material of the enemy troops finally forced the Wehrmacht to retreat.

During the rest of the stay in Tunisia, the division would continue to fight bravely until the end in the face of overwhelming Allied forces. The 10 Panzer-Division (reduced to a few hundred men and a few tanks available) would contract, together with all Axis troops, May 13, 1943, to officially dissolve next month.

Unlike many other divisions, the 10 Panzer-Division was never reconstituted, and then from that moment the division finally disappeared from German order of battle.
................................................................................................

So as previously mentioned I plan on creating a panzer II of the 10th Panzer with Afrika corps infantry support.

Since we don't have much time I have started strait way into the build. I will lose a few weeks due to the holiday travel.

I am really enjoying the build so far. I think I am going to leave the bogey wheels off and attach them after final paint.

This is a picture of the drive gear, with a fairly fiddly bit of modeling required to add the grease fittings?

It actually required cutting off 8 microscopic pieces of plastic. I got to say that there is something very satisfying about this type of modeling..maybe I'm a bit off for actually enjoying this fiddly part of the hobby, but the resulting realism makes the work worth it.

Picture of the unmodified gearbox, showing the tiny indentation that needed the grease fittings(4 per gear box--8 total)

Here is a picture of the sprue, that the grease fittings were cut from, and one of the grease fittings.

And final pic of the two gear boxes, with grease fittings.

Stay tuned for more pics!!

GG

Panzermeister36 · Post by **Panzermeister36** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:39 pm

Why don't they mold those into the sprocket in the first place...?

generalgrog · Post by **generalgrog** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:05 pm

Panzermeister36 wrote:Why don't they mold those into the sprocket in the first place...?

Good question!! Maybe it was a mold design problem?

GG

generalgrog · Post by **generalgrog** » Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:33 am

OK I'm making some good progress on the kit.

Pics show the chasis foundation. I haven't decided yet if I am going to glue the wheels on or leave them on for the end of the build.

I see the Tamiya kits already includes the suspension springs molded in, not so with this kit.

You can also see gear box grease fittings if you look real close..

Dry fitting to get an idea of what the tank will look like.

Some pics of the Tamiya Afrika corps figs. I have to say that these figs are amazing. Awesome detail, and very intuitive to assemble, hardly any flash.

I haven't glued all the extras yet so as to facilitate the painting. Also some weapons will be add post paint.

I posed the figs around the tank to get some ideas on how my dio will look, I'm pretty encouraged.

Gonna keep pressing on...

GG

Panzermeister36 · Post by **Panzermeister36** » Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:37 pm

You're making good progress, keep up the great work

gosselin2112 · Post by **gosselin2112** » Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:33 pm

Nice to see a DML kit in the mix. Good stuff.

Russ

generalgrog · Post by **generalgrog** » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:30 pm

Allright so with this update a little history. (I hope you guys are enjoying this aspect of my build log)

I created a little diagram of the 1st battle of Kasserine pass, where the Afrika corps and 10th panzer meet up and this is where I have decided to base my dio around.

The background for this battle is that Rommel was recalled to Germany by Hitler, but he wanted to have a go at the newly Arrived Americans before he left. So he devised this attack plan to attack through the two mountain ranges in Tunisia,which ran north to south in a triangular pattern called the western dorsal and the eastern dorsal.

Basically... after attacking the eastern Dorsal at the Faid pass on Feb 14-15 the 10th Panzer moved on to attack the Kasserine Pass on the western dorsal along with the 21st panzer (Afrika Corps) on Feb 20th.

I made some notes on an illustration from Osprey's Kasserine Pass 1943

GG

Panzermeister36 · Post by **Panzermeister36** » Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:55 pm

Yes, I am at least enjoying the history aspect! Thanks for the background - I enjoy reading about Rommel's revolutionary tactics and such, he was a great general (or field marshal at this time).

generalgrog · Post by **generalgrog** » Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:23 am

Finished up the Hull. It looks real spindly doesn't it?

I debated whether or not to do the interior due to time restrictions, but you know what I said this is my tank and I didn't want to short cut my model in a rush. Even though it will be a dio, I will leave the turret loose so I can take it off and look inside.

I had to do some putty filling where the back armor plate mated with the hull bottom. Hopefully you can see the green filler.

Moving on to the interior, hope to get that completed tomorrow.

GG

spruecutter · Post by **spruecutter** » Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:15 pm

Great progress

Thanks for deciding to do the interior, I'm very interested to see how it builds up.
The arrangement of the figures makes for a good composition,

should be a smart dio.

generalgrog · Post by **generalgrog** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:45 am

I've almost completed the interior. I found yet another error in that Dragon completely left out the gas and brake floor pedals in the instruction sheet. So I just need to glue that up and everything will be ready for paint.

Engine and main interior section. I had to do a little cutting of one of the raised plastic lines in the interior of the hull to get the interior section to fit. But now that, that is taken care of, it goes in and out with ease. So the plan is to paint the items outside of the hull and glue them post paint.

Radio assembly, radioman/loaders seat, and stowage boxes, to be painted and added after interior section is glued in place.

Dry fit pics...

So I've got my Afrika Korps paints, weathering and dust effects on order. I also ordered some German infantry decals for the figs. I wish I would have thought to buy some tank crewmen to put inside the tank, if I have time I still may do that.

Till next time..

GG

generalgrog · Post by **generalgrog** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:49 am

By the way..do you guys notice how the hull is bowed? Not sure how to fix it, or if it needs to be fixed... Anyone know if this will be a problem for me?

GG

Nige201980 · Post by **Nige201980** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:00 pm

generalgrog wrote:By the way..do you guys notice how the hull is bowed? Not sure how to fix it, or if it needs to be fixed... Anyone know if this will be a problem for me?

GG

Can you not brace it with some spare sprue never done armour so i don't know if this is possible I've done it on an plane kit and it worked ok.

generalgrog · Post by **generalgrog** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:28 pm

OK I've reached a bit of snag in my build. Yet another error in the instruction kit. It had me glue the two front braces backwards. No way I could tell this, until I went to check glue the front armor section in place. So... at first I was very upset, because I could not remove the braces without damaging the fenders.

But I realized that this was a tank.... and that means I can put a load of extras(like track links, sand bags...etc) all over the tank... so I think I will be ok. I'll just have to get creative on how to cover up the error....grrrrr.

Pics incoming..
GG

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:47 pm

generalgrog wrote:OK I've reached a bit of snag in my build. Yet another error in the instruction kit. It had me glue the two front braces backwards. No way I could tell this, until I went to check glue the front armor section in place. So... at first I was very upset, because I could not remove the braces without damaging the fenders.

But I realized that this was a tank.... and that means I can put a load of extras(like track links, sand bags...etc) all over the tank... so I think I will be ok. I'll just have to get creative on how to cover up the error....grrrrr.

Pics incoming..
GG

That's the beauty of armor,you can hide a multitude of sins under gear and mud etc

UKscalemodeller · Post by **UKscalemodeller** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:01 am

Such a shame about the problems you are having. Internals on this look great

generalgrog · Post by **generalgrog** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:36 am

Some progress pictures of the upper half. I'm pretty close to wrapping this, part of the build, up. I just need to build the turret and I'll be ready to start spraying.

In this pic you can see where the instruction set nailed me, but I've allready figured a work around, in that I will have some extra "magic track" links to place across the mixed up brace area.

Close up of front armor section.

After cutting off the backwards angle bracket, I glued it to the correct depression thinking I would smooth it over with some putty, but then I realized I could cover it up with track links...so I'm probably going to leave it as is.

Underside of the turret roof.

I'm going to press on with my plans to paint the interior, to be honest I was a bit discouraged, and was almost ready to just close the whole thing up and focus on the exterior, but I made it through that..

Believe it or not, I actually enjoy building this kit, I think I just made a mistake in getting this kit, with the fact that I'm newly baptized into the hobby, not knowing what to expect from a dragon models kit. I still think I would buy dragon in the future, but maybe only for 3 or 4 month GB's.

GG

Panzermeister36 · Post by **Panzermeister36** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:30 am

Comon, you should have seen that error coming, its a dragon kit after all

LoL!

Nice idea for the fix, spare tracks were often put on german tanks for extra armour. Great progress, hang with it on the interior, as you can always not glue the turret on and remove in to show off the inside!

generalgrog · Post by **generalgrog** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:33 pm

Thought I would post some pics of the supplies and extras that have arrived since I started the build.

I have started painting the interior but it's not finished yet..pics incoming later.

Here is the sprues of the Tamiya, Afrika Korps figs, LEE so graciously sent me. Extras from his Tamiya kit.

Thank's LEE!!

There is a real nice "how to" on painting the figs.

On a whim I found some tamiya tank crew figs on ebay, if I have time I plan on adding the tank crew. I figured, if I am going to be having figures around the tank in a battle scene, it only made sense to try and add figs to the interior when I go to remove the turret to look inside.

I don't think the driver, or the radio man(who I will need to convert to a seated position) will be a problem. I'm kind of worried about how I will model the commander. We shall see.

By the way, these boxes were really old, I'm thinking 1970's era?

And I also purchased some tamiya decals for the figs in the dio.

I have to say I am completely blown away by the quality of these decals. I got the 1/35-1/16 german infantry, and the 1/35 german infantry Afrika korps sets.

And finally my paint and weathering supplies arrived.

Next update will show some paint!!!

GG

gosselin2112 · Post by **gosselin2112** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:01 pm

Coming along nicely.

Coen · Post by **Coen** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:32 pm

I'm just catching up on these builds GG... WOW... you're going completely all out on this little gem.
I've built this kit twice now and I loved it. I still have one of them.
I love that it has the interior.
This is going to be a mean diorama buddy... I'm glad I finally caught it when I did.
Awesome!!!!!

generalgrog · Post by **generalgrog** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:15 am

Thanks Coen...I've developed a kind of love-hate relationship with the kit by now. I really love the details and possibilities with the kit. I'm just prechecking all of my assemblies from now on!

And..I just couldn't resist doing all of the interior..it would have been a real shame to just leave it on the sprue, but I guess it's all what your into.

GG

longlance67 · Post by **longlance67** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:19 am

thats a lot of lovely goodies

will make this little kit a proper gem mate

great stuff

Shane.

generalgrog · Post by **generalgrog** » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:14 pm

Allright I know I said paint was incoming, but I wanted to get some pictures of the problem with the tank crew I ran into. Unfortunately I will not be using the tank crew for this build. I cleaned them up, converted the radio man, only to discover that there isn't enough room inside the tank to use these guys, without a major conversion to the commander(what i was afraid of in the beginning).

I think I could make them work, but I would have to take about 1/4" off of the drivers buttocks(Forest Gump), and the commander would have to have the arms completely redone, and set to a seating position as well.

You can see how the head of the radio operator sticks up through the turret a little, and this where the commander should be standing.

I really fought with myself, thinking I could really convert these figures to make them fit, but in the end I just didn't think it was a worth while battle at this point. So the tank will be buttoned up, and I will at least finish off painting the interior.

I will save the crew figs for another project.

I was going to leave the turret open with the commanders head "peaking" out, but I sadly I had to close it up.

All for now..

GG

Panzermeister36 · Post by **Panzermeister36** » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:42 pm

shame about those figures, they always add a lot to a model...

spruecutter · Post by **spruecutter** » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:38 pm

Does make you appreciate what a squeeze it must have been to operate in one of these machines.

Coen · Post by **Coen** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:26 am

That's too bad GG. I have had that same struggle about 20 times with my builds.
Some of which I would have loved to have a full crew in them
I'm just not good enough at conversions to make the figures work for me.
Best leave them alone and do something different eh?

generalgrog · Post by **generalgrog** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:37 am

Coen..I could do the conversion, I'm pretty good with modeling putty and sculpting from my warhammer days, but with the compressed time frame of this SIG(lots of Holiday travel for me), I'm afraid I just don't have the time.

That's ok there will be plenty of infantry figures outside the vehicle!!

GG

generalgrog · Post by **generalgrog** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:45 am

Allright after a little break, I finished up the interior.(actually had 90% of it done a few weeks ago)

Anyway, I decided since I wasn't going to do the figures for the inside and time is short, I wasn't going to spend an inordinate amount of time detailing the inside, so I painted it to a fairly decent standard but not "best in show" quality.

I couldn't fins much info on what the historically accurate interior was for a panzer II was, some said offwhite and some said blue grey. I decided on the offwhite.

I don't know of the urge to try and add more detail to the interior will strike me later if I have time, but there is room enough for me to do some pin washing later if I am too annoyed with the current state.

GG

Panzermeister36 · Post by **Panzermeister36** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:11 am

LOL can you even see the enterior from the outside, cause you did a great job on it!!!!

Beautiful job in there 'grog! The colour looks right to me, off-white. I might be wrong though, but that's what i've seen in colourized WWII video!

generalgrog · Post by **generalgrog** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:13 am

Panzermeister36 wrote:LOL can you even see the enterior from the outside, cause you did a great job on it!!!! Beautiful job in there 'grog! The colour looks right to me, off-white. I might be wrong though, but that's what i've seen in colourized WWII video!

Yeah you can't see it in Dio format, but from time to time I may want to remove the turret and have a look see!!

GG

generalgrog · Post by **generalgrog** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:48 pm

Hey guys..I don't think I am going to get this completed in time for the deadline, as real life stuff(not in a bad way)

has kind of taken away the time. I still plan on completing the dio, but it will just be one of those "leisurely" builds.

GG

conradschmid99 · Post by **conradschmid99** » Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:36 am

Thats too bad
It looks so cool